Thank you so much for this post. Speaking as an artist, this is by far the most powerful, profound, and insightful thing I've ever seen written about art.
"You can fill a bucket to have a neatly defined portion of seawater to scrutinise, but only a fool would think this is a satisfying summation of the ocean." Beautifully put! (Though Aivazovsky might have been the one to prove otherwise: nobody painted the oceans quite like him!)
I've thought a lot about the state of the arts in the West and its impact elsewhere: and I couldn't agree more with your critique. I would say that literature does require underlying symbolism: Aesop was a storyteller first and foremost, but the underlying moral was also a part of it. And it is worth noting that the West's cosmopolitan curiosity did develop organically: at least it used to have an organic and meaningful aspiration before it became this nauseatingly shallow popularity contest of "I know more cultural stuff about [x] country I actually don't really care about than you do!" By people who wouldn't know the face of the globe without a smartphone.
But the pseudo-intellectualism is reprehensible, and I want other cultural spheres to do their own thing and maintain what makes them special. (My partial focus, as I'm sure you've noticed, is the part-Western but still distinct Slavosphere, + neighbors; I hate the consumerism destroying the local character) That's what's awesome about your Substack.
It actually reminded me a few years ago about a protest a few years back where a bunch of student protesters in Cambridge, MA protested a temporary exhibition of Renoir. Why? Because "Renoir sucks because he's only a decorative artist." Maybe Renoir isn't the most accurate comparison to Madagascarian architectural woodwork, but it seems to stem from the same place in the intellectual brain that generates the misunderstanding you talk about here. (the woodwork is incredibly beautiful, I must say, it doesn't look like anything I've seen before: I'd love to visit Madagascar someday!)
I like to focus on literature's deeper, philosophical content for that very reason. The stuff that makes stories powerful and meaningful, rather than the "proper" interpretations academics impose upon other people's reading experiences. Is that my Western perspective? I don't know, I would have to see how I fare when I review, say, stories from A Thousand and One Nights. But if perspective is inescapable, then at least it can be as pure and honest as possible.
By the way, is it cool if I cross-share this post next week? It really resonates with what I'm doing over at Timeless.
To clarify, I'm not dismissing symbolism as a whole: as you point out, there are rich symbolic systems in many old cultures, including western ones, that grew and took form naturally because they were left alone to do so, as opposed to being interfered with by a colonial culture that honestly believes it has artistic superiority. And even those native, valid symbolic systems are no longer really understood or used properly now that it's all about mind-stuff.
Protesting Renoir because he's "only decorative" is so absurd up I can't even.
As you say, other cultural spheres should be left alone and appreciated for their difference, but it's a sad recurring story that everyone is seduced by this so-called "global" modern consumer culture and only understand what they have lost after it's gone.
Got it. It's unfortunate a lot of the old ways have slipped into obscurity. Orhan Pamuk the author was once asked if he was concerned Western readers wouldn't understand all his Turkish cultural references. His response was that 95% of his Turkish readers don't get the cultural references either.
A lot of the situations depend on each country as well. While not every element of culture is relative, the arts definitely are. But being in Europe for awhile now, which is becoming Americanized, there's a confidence aspect to it as well. When culture is made into a Darwinian competition - to hit the charts, or win a stupid award - it undermines a lot of confidence in even the cultures of countries that a few generations ago seemed rock-solid in confidence.
Coming from the States, I try and turn that around in West Slavia by letting loose my passion for the local cultures (which is genuine). They don't expect somebody from California (the land of Hollywood, blah blah blah) to behave that way. I like to think it makes a difference. Who knows.
No problem! I set aside Thursdays as my day to share other posts.
Thank you so much Jumana 🙏🏼🧡 As an artist i can feel totally and share your approach to the subject! Thank you also for the beautiful trip to the villages on the mountains of Madagascar 🌱🧡
I really enjoyed this. Reminds me of some of the old Jungian essays that respected the historical art and refused to put it into a box but rather revere it. What an experience you had. As an artist I can only imagine it filled your cup so to speak!
Thank you! Do you remember where exactly you read about this? I've read a lot of Jung but I can't remember coming across this, and would be interested in reading more (only if you can easily remember the reference though).
Thank you, so much to think about yet not try and make sense of as that would spoil the whole. I always say that the muse calls and I have to play. I dip my toe in the creative swamp and wait to see what emerges
Thank you for posting this and giving me clarity on how beauty for beauty is lost in society’s reductionist attitude towards culture, art and creativity.
Thank you for sharing. Beautifully understood and articulated.
Thank you!
Such a perceptive post. Sadly we love shoehorning our tastes and prejudices onto things that are alien to us.
Yes, the unconsciousness is really sad :(
Thank you so much for this post. Speaking as an artist, this is by far the most powerful, profound, and insightful thing I've ever seen written about art.
Thank you!! I did wonder if I was going too far, but I am fed up with the gaslighting and forced reeducation of creators.
"You can fill a bucket to have a neatly defined portion of seawater to scrutinise, but only a fool would think this is a satisfying summation of the ocean." Beautifully put! (Though Aivazovsky might have been the one to prove otherwise: nobody painted the oceans quite like him!)
I've thought a lot about the state of the arts in the West and its impact elsewhere: and I couldn't agree more with your critique. I would say that literature does require underlying symbolism: Aesop was a storyteller first and foremost, but the underlying moral was also a part of it. And it is worth noting that the West's cosmopolitan curiosity did develop organically: at least it used to have an organic and meaningful aspiration before it became this nauseatingly shallow popularity contest of "I know more cultural stuff about [x] country I actually don't really care about than you do!" By people who wouldn't know the face of the globe without a smartphone.
But the pseudo-intellectualism is reprehensible, and I want other cultural spheres to do their own thing and maintain what makes them special. (My partial focus, as I'm sure you've noticed, is the part-Western but still distinct Slavosphere, + neighbors; I hate the consumerism destroying the local character) That's what's awesome about your Substack.
It actually reminded me a few years ago about a protest a few years back where a bunch of student protesters in Cambridge, MA protested a temporary exhibition of Renoir. Why? Because "Renoir sucks because he's only a decorative artist." Maybe Renoir isn't the most accurate comparison to Madagascarian architectural woodwork, but it seems to stem from the same place in the intellectual brain that generates the misunderstanding you talk about here. (the woodwork is incredibly beautiful, I must say, it doesn't look like anything I've seen before: I'd love to visit Madagascar someday!)
I like to focus on literature's deeper, philosophical content for that very reason. The stuff that makes stories powerful and meaningful, rather than the "proper" interpretations academics impose upon other people's reading experiences. Is that my Western perspective? I don't know, I would have to see how I fare when I review, say, stories from A Thousand and One Nights. But if perspective is inescapable, then at least it can be as pure and honest as possible.
By the way, is it cool if I cross-share this post next week? It really resonates with what I'm doing over at Timeless.
To clarify, I'm not dismissing symbolism as a whole: as you point out, there are rich symbolic systems in many old cultures, including western ones, that grew and took form naturally because they were left alone to do so, as opposed to being interfered with by a colonial culture that honestly believes it has artistic superiority. And even those native, valid symbolic systems are no longer really understood or used properly now that it's all about mind-stuff.
Protesting Renoir because he's "only decorative" is so absurd up I can't even.
As you say, other cultural spheres should be left alone and appreciated for their difference, but it's a sad recurring story that everyone is seduced by this so-called "global" modern consumer culture and only understand what they have lost after it's gone.
Cross-sharing would be totally cool, thank you!
Got it. It's unfortunate a lot of the old ways have slipped into obscurity. Orhan Pamuk the author was once asked if he was concerned Western readers wouldn't understand all his Turkish cultural references. His response was that 95% of his Turkish readers don't get the cultural references either.
A lot of the situations depend on each country as well. While not every element of culture is relative, the arts definitely are. But being in Europe for awhile now, which is becoming Americanized, there's a confidence aspect to it as well. When culture is made into a Darwinian competition - to hit the charts, or win a stupid award - it undermines a lot of confidence in even the cultures of countries that a few generations ago seemed rock-solid in confidence.
Coming from the States, I try and turn that around in West Slavia by letting loose my passion for the local cultures (which is genuine). They don't expect somebody from California (the land of Hollywood, blah blah blah) to behave that way. I like to think it makes a difference. Who knows.
No problem! I set aside Thursdays as my day to share other posts.
Very late reply! Yes people, and cultures, sometimes need to have their own worth reflected at them from outside before they can (re) internalise it.
Thank you so much Jumana 🙏🏼🧡 As an artist i can feel totally and share your approach to the subject! Thank you also for the beautiful trip to the villages on the mountains of Madagascar 🌱🧡
You're welcome, glad it spoke to you!
I really enjoyed this. Reminds me of some of the old Jungian essays that respected the historical art and refused to put it into a box but rather revere it. What an experience you had. As an artist I can only imagine it filled your cup so to speak!
Thank you! Do you remember where exactly you read about this? I've read a lot of Jung but I can't remember coming across this, and would be interested in reading more (only if you can easily remember the reference though).
Thank you, so much to think about yet not try and make sense of as that would spoil the whole. I always say that the muse calls and I have to play. I dip my toe in the creative swamp and wait to see what emerges
I know just what you mean!
Thank you for posting this and giving me clarity on how beauty for beauty is lost in society’s reductionist attitude towards culture, art and creativity.
Thank you for reading!